| Thread: PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
<zero>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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I love this about PayPal so much!! Now everyone thinks im the bad guy because I am not refunding people. Just great!!
http://www3.telus.net/tmac/PAYPAL.JPG
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<TJ>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Fletcher>,
I went directly to PP's site through my browser, like <anonymous> said. Once on the login page, I entered my e-mail address and what I thought would be my password. It said the password was invalid and gave me a list of letters (secure) to type into a box so that they could e-mail my password to me. But then it said that my e-mail address is <b>NOT IN THEIR RECORDS.</b> Yes, quite a scam...
And by the way, I made a mistake in that first message. I made that purchase through Amazon.com a few days ago, not ebay. Regardless, I suppose that's where someone (apparently not PP) got my e-mail address was via that transaction. I never did sign up for an acct through PP. Guess I just assumed that Amazon.com transactions are automatically done through PP or something. I just don't understand how all that stuff works. Nevertheless, I'm so glad I found you guys before hitting any links in that e-mail. You probably saved me a lot of money and a whole lot of headaches. Thanks a million! I think I'll just stick to offline shopping. It's a lot less risky.
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<Fletcher>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<TJ>, My advice is get out while you still can..with your money intact that is. I have to say the scam is nothing short of brilliant. Entice you to deposit "your money" into THEIR account that they say has YOUR name on it. Only problem is THEY control the account, NOT YOU and every penny that goes into it. They can at any time without reason or explanation, freeze the acct, drain all the funds, and even go into your checking acct if you were unlucky enough to link it! All they have to do is point to their "infamous user agreement" that says you gave them permission. Don't even bother to ask why, you might be lucky to get the same story twice! Ahhh there are even some Nigerians out there that would be envious!
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<Anonymous>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<TJ>,
All messages that are from PayPal will address you by your first and last name. My advice is to open your a browser and physicaly type in www.paypal.com, and login from there. If they want some info, it will tell you when you log in. Let me know what happens.
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<TJ>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Anonymous>,
They neither addressed me by first OR last name. I copied and pasted the e-mail directly into the message here. It is exactly as it appears in the e-mail.
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<Anonymous>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<TJ>,
Does the email address you with your first and last name?
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<TJ>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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PaypalSucks,
I just used E-Bay to make a purchase a few days ago. I had to attempt it several times and finally called my bank to see what the problem was. Turned out that my card hadn't been activated. They fixed that and I tried again... successfully... to make the purchase. That was a few days ago. Today, I got this e-mail and read the things on paypalsucks' site. Now, I don't know what I should do. Glad I didn't click any links there though. Any advice here?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Security Center
Military Grade Encryption is Only the Start
At PayPal, we want to increase your security and comfort level with every transaction. From our Buyer and Seller Protection Policies to our Verification and Reputation systems, we'll help to keep you safe.
PayPal is committed to maintaining a safe environment for its community of buyers and sellers. To protect the security of your account, PayPal employs
some of the most advanced security systems in the world and our anti-fraud teams regularly screen the PayPal system for unusual activity.
Recently, our Account Review Team identified some unusual activity in your account. In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement access to your account will be limited. This is a fraud prevention measure meant to ensure that your account is not compromised.
In order to secure your account we may require some specific information from you. We encourage you to log in by clicking on the link below and complete the requested form as soon as possible.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_login-run
Ignoring our request, for an extended period of time, may result in account limitations or may result in eventual account closure.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Please understand that this is
a security measure meant to help protect you and your account.
We apologize for any inconvenience.
Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review Department
PayPal Email ID PP4392
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*Please do not respond to this e-mail as your reply will not be received.
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<tiffany>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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OHH I hear all of you> I am having so many problems with them I sent an item to a man in NY and he claims he never recieved it. I had tracking on the item and insurance. So because the post office lost the item I filed the insurance claim and told the post office to send him the $$. After he finds out he will be getting $$ from the post office he filed a item not recieved complaint with ebay and took another 117.00 out of my account. So he is getting twice what he paid and wouldn't doubt the item also. THIS is a bunch of CRAP.
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<Fletcher>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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PaypalSucks, Anonymous, you are wrong again but at least you are consistent. I did blame myself for using paypal before I investigated them. By mere coincidence, today of all days I received back some compensation in the form of a check from just one of the many class action lawsuits filed against paypal. Unfortunately it was not enough to cover the aggravation and loss I experienced. Of course all these unhappy people filing lawsuits and judges ruling against paypal just have an axe to grind right? Maybe some of these claims are actually true? What a novel concept! And paypal keeps saying they are doing nothing wrong while at the same time paying out these judgements...hmmm very curious.
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PaypalSucks
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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Quote:
You see, my belief was that all of the caller's were a few bricks shy of a load, however, my actions were to treat them with respect and be helpful, though I didn't believe they deserved it.
You truely are a classic paypal employee. In fact, if there was a paypal employee hall of fame, you'd be in the first round. Congrats.
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<Anonymous>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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PaypalSucks,
Quote:
It's called cognitive dissonance. This person, a former PayPal employee, now posting as Anonymous paints the exact picture I, other former employees, and other users of PayPal have painted, yet chooses not to believe their own minds as to the evil and malicious nature of PayPal.
Ummm....no, not really. The reason I quit was because I couldn't stand listening to whine ass cry babies like yourself all day. I have and had no problem with PayPal's policies nor do I feel sorry for any of you who have "allegedly" been screwed by PayPal. You get what you deserve in life. By the way, I noticed you didn't respond to my last reply to you that refuted your article about PayPal's user agreement not allowing you to do chargebacks. Instead, you chose to skip that one over, obviously because you have no rebuttal and you saw an opportunity to take something that I said and use it for your own misleading, deceitful agenda. Let me guess, you're a left winger too. Well, at least you use the same tactics.
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cognitive dissonance
A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions, such as opposing the slaughter of animals and eating meat
Yes, I do believe that while at PayPal I might have suffered from this condition, but under different conditions than you are trying to portray. You see, my belief was that all of the caller's were a few bricks shy of a load, however, my actions were to treat them with respect and be helpful, though I didn't believe they deserved it.
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PaypalSucks
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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Quote:
I don't deny that the customer service at PayPal is not the best. I had plenty of people around me that were downright rude to people on the phone, however, I wasn't one of them. I didn't like working there because I had no control over anything. I was the punching bag on the front lines. I worked customer service for an investment company for 5 years before I went to PayPal. I only lasted 4 months at PayPal because I would find myself being pissed off when I left work because all I listened to all day long was negativity. It was draining, and I'm glad I got the hell out of there.
It's called cognitive dissonance. This person, a former PayPal employee, now posting as Anonymous paints the exact picture I, other former employees, and other users of PayPal have painted, yet chooses not to believe their own minds as to the evil and malicious nature of PayPal.
cognitive dissonance
A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions, such as opposing the slaughter of animals and eating meat.
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<Anonymous>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Fletcher>,
Quite honestly Fletcher, I never hung up on anyone who called unless they were being extremely vulgur and only cussing. After a few thousand attempts to try and calm them down to see what I could do to help, if they continued with the obscenity, I would disconnect the call. If other employees hung up on you for what you claim, then they should be terminated. I don't deny that the customer service at PayPal is not the best. I had plenty of people around me that were downright rude to people on the phone, however, I wasn't one of them. I didn't like working there because I had no control over anything. I was the punching bag on the front lines. I worked customer service for an investment company for 5 years before I went to PayPal. I only lasted 4 months at PayPal because I would find myself being pissed off when I left work because all I listened to all day long was negativity. It was draining, and I'm glad I got the hell out of there. This will be my last post. My first post was only trying to be helpful, however I got my head chewed off. But what else would I expect. I guess I'm the typical PayPal employee, and you're the typical PayPal customer who can't take any responsibility and can only blame others for your mistakes.
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<Anonymous>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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PaypalSucks,
I'm sure you will recognize the following as your own words.
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If you read and accept PayPal's ToS (Terms of Service) you are in effect waiving your rights to credit card consumer protection laws against unauthorized charges, and you may not issue a chargeback for anything you purchase using your credit card and PayPal account that you are unsatisfied with. How can I make such a claim?[/quoute]
You can't, because obviously you don't know what issuing a chargeback against unauthorized charges means. If you file an unauthorized chargeback with your credit card for something that was bought using PayPal, then you are telling your credit card company that you didn't authorize the purchase that took place, therefore, PayPal has to assume that someone other than yourself made those charges and your account is limited for your own protection. However, if you were to file a chargeback for not receiving an item or receiving an item not as described, as long as you tried to resolve the dispute through PayPal first, the user agreement clearly states that you have every right to file a chargeback.
[quote]Firstly the experiences of PayPal users who post here. Secondly, PayPal's actions. And thirdly, PayPal's own ToS: (emphasis mine)
PayPal encourages all buyer purchase disputes to be filed and resolved through the PayPal dispute resolution process. PayPal reserves the right to terminate or limit account access privileges of buyers in any of the following cases: abuse by a buyer of the reversal process provided by the buyer's issuing bank; filing a chargeback against an unauthorized transaction; consistent failure to pursue PayPal's Buyer Complaint Process before pursuing any alternate reversal process provided by the buyer's issuing bank.
Oh, by the way, I love how you conveniently left out part of the user agreement on this one that makes your point completely invalid. Here it is since you forgot it.
"If you cancel your Buyer Complaint claim or it is denied or results in no refund, you may still be able to pursue credit card chargeback rights. In many cases, your credit card company will allow you to file a chargeback for 90 days or more after the date of the payment. If PayPal resolves a Buyer Complaint claim in the buyer’s favor but the buyer does not receive a full recovery of their payment, and if the time for processing of the claim results in the buyer’s loss of credit card chargeback rights, then PayPal will provide a full recovery to the buyer"
Hmmm...that's weird. So basically, what the user agreement states is that you are entitled to use chargeback privileges through your credit card company without violating PayPal's user agreement.
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If a reversal claim is initiated, whether as a result of a dispute or for any other reason, the parties agree to provide to any requesting party on a timely basis any and all necessary documentation to resolve any reversal or dispute. PayPal DOES NOT act as the agent of either party in any transaction or resulting dispute, [That's Paypal telling you, they are not doing this on your behalf, but all actions taken will be to protect THEIR interests, NOT yours!] though PayPal does control the outcome of disputes initiated through the Service's dispute resolution process.
By stating that they do not act as the agent on chargeback issues, PayPal is saying that they don't make the decision, your credit card company does. When your credit card company notifies PayPal of a chargeback, those funds are immediately put on hold and the seller is required to provide documentation to PayPal if they want to dispute the chargeback. If PayPal does not receive any sort of documentation from the seller, they can't dispute the chargeback and the credit card company takes the money. If the seller provides sufficient documentation, PayPal will dispute the chargeback with the credit card company. If the credit card company refuses the dispute, it's over. Buyer gets their money back, and seller gets the money taken away from them to cover the funds that were returned to the buyer's credit card company.
Quote:
They also say:
Any of the following events may lead to your account being limited:
i. Reports of unauthorized or unusual credit card use associated with the account including, but not limited to, notice by the card issuing bank. This includes notices made by you to your credit card company that a transaction was unauthorized or your account compromised, and is done in order to protect you from further unauthorized use of your card; See Closing Accounts and Limiting Account Access.
Note that by issuing a chargeback via your credit card company, would meet the above. And if you do that, then they are going to say you are in "violation" of their user agreement.
Again, you either don't understand what an unauthorized chargeback is or you are intentionally being misleading to try to prove your point. I've already explained this above, so no need to do it again.
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At which time, PayPal has a whole 'nother set of rules that apply to you. If you read and listen to Marc Perkel's recordings you will hear them say "You violated the agreement.." many, many times. That is their whip. If you "violate" their user agreement, that's it. PayPal now treats you as a convicted felon. It's amazing to hear the indignation in their voices. Also note this one:
[Any of the following events may lead to your account being limited:]
vi. Initiation by a buyer of a reversal process through the buyer's issuing bank without first pursuing the Buyer Complaint process described below;
This says that if someone puts a chargeback on you, or they didn't follow the PayPal policy, YOU are in violation of their agreement!
No, this says that if you paid using your bank account (not credit card), and you initiate a reversal of a payment by contacting your bank before trying to resolve the issue through PayPal's means first, your account may be limited. The reasoning behind this is that a bank will only do a reversal of charges if you sign an affidavit stating that you didn't authorize the charge. Of course, when the bank notifies PayPal of a reversal due to unauthorized bank account use, PayPal may limit your account for your own protection.
Quote:
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. The above is not legal advice. It's my opinion as a reasonable person reading their ToS, and seeing the actions taken by PayPal against people who try to use their consumer protection rights.
Just a suggestion, you might want to read it again.
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<Fletcher>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Anonymous>,Well Mr Anonymous, you have really proved to us all the type of employees that they hire there! I am quite sure you have a ready excuse for all the people that "follow their rules" and still get ripped off like I did! The only thing you are convincing any of us many folks that have been ripped off by paypal is that you were a "typical paypal employee"! The funny thing is that after being handed 3 different stories of why my funds were being held and then told 4 different times that my funds would be posted to my acct which never happened, I decided to record the last two conversations to use as a "memory jogger" as the stories kept on coming. Of course when confronted with their own words, they did what any person caught in a lie would do..hung up! And your quote "when millions of people sign up and a small percentage of them get pissed" reminds me of the crook that says "hey I don't rip everyone off, I don't need too" As for your user agreement, try calling the Attorney General's office and ask for their opinion on Paypal's business practices and all the wonderful complaints they get. Im sure they will tell you they are not impressed at all!
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