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<Emily>
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PaypalSucks,
I have spent several hours reading all the posts here, as well as other areas you link to. You have those that oppose this site naturally, however, though, it is necessary to filter some hostile personalities; I found this site very informative and useful Too, I never laughed so hard. I loved the hodgepodge of people with their infinite expressions and emotions.
On the serious side, I know that it is not funny to the people that have had to endure the hardship of losing capital. I am trying to decide on a PayPal account myself and appreciate all of you that have shared your experience. I now have a little more on my side to give me a better idea of what the risks are. It seems to me that risk is what it amounts to. Betting you will not be one of the victims. If my investment were small enough, the convenience may be worth the risks, but when the larger amounts seem to raise flags, forget it.
I understand them taking a look at the relief fund, but refusing to give it to the Red Cross, which was the people’s choice, seemed a little “you’re not going to boss me around”. Why could this not have been agreed on when everything was set up???
In defense of this forum, how could it be any different and truly be the voice of the people?
Convinsed
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Formulalt1
New User
From: N/A
Messages: 1
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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Hey all, I am new to this site and have had many issue's with paypal ripping me off, be it charging the wrong amount or multi charging a account and then making me wait several days or there constant "we are updating your funds are not available" and such but if your would like to read the thread I created over at a site I moderate as it is long and don't want to duplicate here http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=454815 , that was the last straw. Your forum was posted there and I am currently trying to urge our 400K members to find another service for there online payments as paypal is nothing but con artists who will promise anything to get your business but once they have you they bend you over with no lube. As you can tell I am beyond fed up. Good luck to the rest of you.
John
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caugusti
Message Maniac
From: RTP, NC
Messages: 163
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Rob Inc, MBA>, Rob, but there are some numbers. In the lawsuit against PayPal the number of limited accounts were fairly large and the amount held by PayPal was also large. In fact PayPal got into trouble for holding on to so much money and not refunding it. PayPal's excuse was that their customers had not asked for it... (in the proper way of course)
You can't explain PayPal in probabilistic terms because PayPal is so secret. But you can learn how they run their business and see if you want to be part of it. This website exposes the risks of dealing with PayPal. If you read this site about what PayPal can do and how they think of and treat their customers you should be able to get a good handle on the situation. Even if it is partly subjective.
caugusti, MBA from a real school
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<Rob Inc, MBA>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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Quote:
I was about to open a PayPal account for business. It was ironic this site caught my eye in a google search. After reading all your posts I have completely changed my mind.
-----
and the system works! :)
Thanks dee!
Welp, after having used eBay/PayPal for longer than I can remember (since some time in the 90s), and after going through a small number of small problems myself, I will take this opportunity that my account has been Limited to look into other options.
That said, I wonder if anyone has actually approached this issue with a logical, Bayesian approach. I see random estimates of the number of frozen accounts, and a lot of one-sided (naturally) posts against PayPal, but seeing more and more negative posts about PayPal will not change the actual probability (which may, in fact, be relatively low) that you will have an unsatisfactory experience with them. Consider how many active users PayPal has and compare that to how many people there are here (a very easy-to-find site, if not by Search Engine, then by URL alone!) posting negative experiences. A Bayesian way of trying to assess what is really going on in the real world given the very little trouble I actually had--until it finally happened to me--would still heavily weigh the probability of any given PayPal user having a big problem with PayPal toward the low probability side.
I'm not trying to encourage nor discourage anyone from using PayPal; I'm only saying that a high probability of someone posting here having been screwed by PayPal does not infer either that there is a high probability of being screwed by PayPal or that there is a high probability that someone, having been screwed by PayPal, will post about it, either. *shrugs* Just something to consider while deciding whether or not to use PayPal.
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<Anonymous>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<LittleAl>,
Quote:
Could I ask if you know to what extent PayPal verifies a 'New User's' Card/Bank & Address details?
I would have imagined that if the 'Seller' became a victim of credit card fraud via 'chargeback', that PayPal as 'Merchant' would be responsible for not having confirmed buyer idendity. Which I thought was the whole point for PayPal being there (apart from making themselves some money!)
Both PayPal and eBay appear to very easy to join.
A person's credit card is confirmed using a verification process that includes name, billing address, and 2 #. If a card fails this verification process, PayPal then requires that they do what's called the expanded use number. This is a 4 digit # that PayPal puts on that person's credit card statement that they must verify before they can use the card. PayPal does not act as the merchant, if someone files a chargeback directly with their credit card company, it is on the seller to make sure that they followed the seller protection policy. Keep in mind, it would be easy for someone to steal a credit card, setup a PayPal account using the credit card owner's name and billing address. In a case like this, the person who set the account up would be providing you with a different shipping address than where the credit card statement goes to, so the seller would not be eligible for seller protection because they would be shipping to an 'unconfirmed' address. As far as how PayPal verifies a bank account, when you add a bank account, PayPal puts 2 deposits into your account between $0.01 and $0.99. In order to become a 'verified' user, you would have to be able to confirm these two amounts after adding your bank account. It is very easy to join PayPal and Ebay, however that does not mean that there are not safeguards in place to protect you. The problem is, if a chargeback is filed by someone, the credit card company makes the ultimate decision whether or not the funds will be taken back. If you are planning on becoming a seller, I would recommend studying the 'seller protection policy' in the user agreement. I have sold through Ebay/Paypal for 3 years, and I've never been burnt because I have always followed SPP to a t. Others on here state differently. I can only speak for myself though.
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<LittleAl>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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Could I ask if you know to what extent PayPal verifies a 'New User's' Card/Bank & Address details?
I would have imagined that if the 'Seller' became a victim of credit card fraud via 'chargeback', that PayPal as 'Merchant' would be responsible for not having confirmed buyer idendity. Which I thought was the whole point for PayPal being there (apart from making themselves some money!)
Both PayPal and eBay appear to very easy to join.
If someone would kindly shed some light, it would be very much appreciated.
Thanks.
,
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<I AM THE ONE>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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PaypalSucks, Did U ever think, You keep selling on "EBAY" but it's EBAY who owns freakin Paypal. What the hell you still useing ebay and paypal for then. You can only answer your questions when you "EBAY"!!!
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<PPScrewedME>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Anonymous>, Well it happened to me too. Even though I shipped to a confirmed paypal address with tracking and insurance, paypal says that I didn't follow the seller protection policy. They haven't been more specific yet but I'm sure they will have some technicallity. Guess its time to get a lawyer. The thing that the paypal employees posting here haven't admitted is that paypal gives you a false sense of security. They give you the impression that buyer and seller protection means something. You get the illusion that somehow if you follow all the rules you will be protected, HA. Keep in mind that Paypal is the one the confirms users and addresses ect. If you trust it when they say you are shipping to a confirmed address and then its not, what can you do. I don't have any way to confirm anything about this person except what paypal gives me. These clowns that work for paypal say we should know better??? That is what paypal is supposed to do, confirm and verify that people are who they say they are. The biggest problem with paypal is that people get the illusion that its is more safe than for a buyer to blindly send cash to the seller without knowing a single thing about them. Or a seller taking a credit card payment or check and shipping the product before the payment clears. With paypal you are lead to beleive that somehow you have more protection, what a huge steaming pile of CR*P. What a **** I am, I searched to see if paypalsucks.com was availble and find all of this good information, just wish I had done this sooner before they screwed me out of $700 oh well live and learn. Thanks for the good info here. Unfortunately we probably aren't even making a dent.....
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kennethhowe
New User
From: California
Messages: 3
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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PaypalSucks,
yes, I totally agree with this website.
Kenneth
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Dina
Message Maniac
From: N/A
Messages: 187
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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angeljs, one thing that may help is to print off emails of correspondance with this guy..and submit them to paypal..that may help..i know someone did something similar to me, and i won the chargeback...the one and only time paypal did something right
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<B. Proud>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<TJ>,
This is a common scam. If you position your cursor on the link for https://www.paypal.com/etc... in the original email, you will see that the underlying link actually points to a website in taiwan or nigeria or wherever. If you go there it looks like a paypal site, but they ask you to input your name, acct#, and password, maybe some personal info and credit card #s. When you do, bang, some crook cleans you out. And its unlikely they got your email from Amazon, more likely they found you by chance, just brute emailing your mail host.
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<Fletcher>
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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angeljs,angeljs like I pointed out in one of my previous emails..there is nothing you can do except sue them. They are judge, jury and executioner and as of right now, they can still take money from anyone that signs their user agreement and uses "their" acct! Yes, that's not a typo, it belongs to them and you have no control over it. They just TELL YOU it is your acct. If I had a dollar for every time I have read your exact same story about paypal...well you know the rest!
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angeljs
New User
From: UK
Messages: 9
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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I've been using Paypal without problems for years, and was, I admit, very sceptical about websites such as this, and thought that the many problems experienced were somehow of the complainants own making...I'm now eating humble pie!
I run my own hosting business, first as a reseller, now I run my own server. One of my clients signed up for a normal hosting package and paid a year in advance (I know, warning bells should have sounded!). Then his website ( a paid to surf traffic exchange) became so successful that he wanted to upgrade to his own server, which I said I would share with him to save HIS costs (minus what he had already paid)! He, admittedly, seemed to be an honest webmaster, always paying his members quickly and his forum feedback was excellent. He paid me 2 months in advance for the server, plus a hefty setup fee.
After month or so, he takes his website offline to 'upgrade the script' as it was causing server problems. My server manager immediately contacts me to tell me he thinks this guy has 'pulled the plug' (his own words) as his domain name was now pointing away from my server. I, being far too trusting and naive, wouldn't believe this, but contacted my client anyway. No response.
A week later, I receive 3 emails from Paypal to say everything he paid me had been charged back, and I was now almost $300 minus in my account! My client absolutely refuses to reply to any of my emails asking for an explanation. After numerous emails and telephone calls to Paypal, it seems that this person made the chargebacks via his bank or credit card company, and put the excuse that his bank account/card was used fraudulantly! He obviously cannot claim non-receipt as I have a mountain of proof, and he cannot claim goods not as described either, so he's made a fraudulant claim that his funds were used without his knowledge.
Unfortunately, no-one that I've spoken to about this online will believe me as this person is, apparantly, a respected businessman involved with several offline ventures.
I received this last email from Paypal:
Dear Angela ******,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We regret to inform you that you received funds from an account with
reports of fraudulent funds use.
Fraudulent funds can happen from sources such as stolen credit cards,
unauthorized access through bank accounts. In all cases, we suggest that
by following our Seller protection, that you will best minimize any loss
due to these fraudulent transactions. Unfortunately if you work outside
our protection you will be liable for the transaction.
Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Sincerely,
Maria Angeles
PayPal Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company
No matter what evidence I sent to Paypal, they just say I have absolutely no recourse as selling services does not come under their seller protection policy! Even though their own website cannot exist without these services!
I just don't know what to do...I'm in the UK, this person is in Canada...what my rights are, I just don't know.
I've just signed up with EMO, as their screening and verification process seems a lot more secure!
https://emocorp.com/
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<Anonymous>
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From: N/A
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<Lisa>,
I find it humorous that you wish to point out other peoples' butchering of the English language.
hint..hint...
gramatical=wrong spelling
grammatical=correct spelling
Maybe you should use spell check next time.
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<Lisa>
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From: N/A
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PayPal CLAIMS to fight chargebacks, but read this... |
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<helene oba>,
"....but how is?" and other gramatical mistakes......Indication of what we are dealing with? Maybe if we taught them correct English?...Is there an English teacher in the house? We can start our own charitable organization, "The Paypal Learns to Read Foundation" or TPLTRF. If you wish to donate, we proudly accept Paypal.....
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