<xppman>, Recently, on the 15th of November I sold an Xbox 360 (Won from Pepsi Contest here in Canada) on Ebay. The Buyer sent me payment using Paypal on the same day the item was sold and he chose to come pick it up at my home on the same day as well since we lived close by. The payment of $1,029.00 USD was sent to my paypal account. The buyer came, and the item was delivered to him, I had him sign a document saying the item has been delivered, and I had him also leave his driver’s license number to confirm the delivery. The address sent from Paypal was CONFIRMED and the address of his home was the same as the one on his driver’s license number I copied down (according to the police I contacted). I even have EMAILs from the buyer, that he confirms himself to have received the item. Paypal first limited my account because they did not believe i had the xbox 360, but i faxed some documents and proved that i did have it so they had no choice but to release it. But immediately, they put the payment on hold and "suspected" fraud. But his address, buyer name all matched. I even have his signature, driver's license, and emails saying he has the item and they still would not cover me with Seller Protection Policy. Now i have lost everything, both the item and the money. I see no reason why I did not confirm delivery, delivered in a timely fashion, and provided proof of shipping. We both did not want to send the goods via a courier because it would be a waste of money on such a large piece of item when it could be saved by a local pick up. I have now lost both the money, and the items, which I worked really hard to attain. Through this experience, I have totally lost confidence in Paypal’s ability to protect me from fraud. What is there that i could do? Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

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<Jose>, NOT EVERYONE!. Your guess is as good as mine as to why anyone would continue to risk their money and reputation on Paypal especially after reading some of the stmts from former employees warning against it!

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I checked out your site and was surprised to see you using Paypal as the method of payment for your book... What is it people I see all these complaints against Paypal but everyone continues to use them ...can someone explain why?

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ladyangwl,Believe me when I tell you that Paypal has no interest getting things right, only that they come out ahead with any funds they can aquire or if they think you will give them access to an account so they can try and aquire more money. Read the email they sent (below) on an account they froze over 18 months ago. I receive this exact same email about once every other month!

It has come to our attention that your PayPal billing information are out of date. This require you to update billing information as soon as possible.
This billing update is also a new PayPal security statement which goes according to the established norms on our terms of service (TOS) to reduce the instance of fraud on our website.

Please update your records on or before September 30, 2005. A failure to update your records may result on a suspension of your account.

To update your PayPal records click on the following link:
http://www.paypal.com


This new security statement will helps us continue to offer PayPal as a secure and cost-effective payment service. We appreciate your cooperation and assistance.


Sincerely,
The PayPal Team

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<4everdeals>,
It seems it is NOT in PPs interest to deal with certain high volume high fraud risk areas apparently.
High end electronics seems to be a big area PP does not like to be involved in.

$14,000 is a lot of cash. Hopefully you have informed your buyers that PayPal and EBAY are the ones holding their $$$. Perhaps PP should now order and ship the xbox360s.

Sorry this happened to you

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Hello everyone This is my personal experience with paypal and ebay I stared selling in ebay and had 22 positive feedback from the 22 transactions that I had sold around 6,000 in less then a month suddenly ebay withdraw 3 of my auctions one of them having 12 items for $339 each and were selling very well because someone was claiming that I was using their pictures I had the manufacture send proof that I could use their pictures as well as anybody that buy from them for advertising purpose but they never cleared this situation. I started taking pre-order for the xbox 360 and stated that the xbox 360 were going to be shipped in 30 days according to ebay policy in a weekend I had in paypal account more then 14,000 counting 2 echecks that needed clearances I left Sunday to another state and came back Tuesday finding my self loaded with emails asking why ebay has suspended my trading privileges and that they wanted a refund when I went to my paypal account I had my account frozen because of suddenly increase in activity plus someone was requesting their money because supposedly someone else use they ebay id and paypal account to pay me. I receive an email from ebay saying that they have suspended my trading privileges and that I was going to receive another email explaining why wile I had my mouth open of disbelieve for what was happening. This had like a domino effect leading one complain requesting information filing complains ECT.. making me look like criminal after emailing ebay several time they posted in my ebay that they cancelled my selling privileges because of suspicious behavior leaving me with my mouth more open and I, still in choke for what is happening the only respond that I got from paypal was this

How can I restore my account access?

This limitation cannot be appealed.


Once you complete all of the checklist items, your case will be reviewed by one of our Account Specialists. We will send you an email with the outcome of the review.

I had verified 4 things they ask but with out luck

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<helene oba>, Hey Helene I like to post a quetion to you since you say paypal is perfect. Maybe you can help me with the problem I am having with your company. I purchased an item on October 25 (501) dollars paid that day but was told by the seller that I should wait until the balanced cleared before she delivered it. On Nov 1 I received an email from paypal saying this person printed a shipping slip and the item would be on its way. I was then sent a tracking number from UPS. Nov 5 I email the seller no response and to top it off Ebay has Mary J fagin as not being a registered user anymore. Nov 7 I contact UPS and learn that the item was never shipped. I contacted Ebay, and filed a claim on Nov 7 with palpal. They email me on the 8 of Nov telling me that there is a tracking number. I send another email explaining that this person never sent the item and UPS verifies it. This is the last I have heard from Paypal. My bank says that they can not do anything because I authorized the payment. What do I do know. The only reason I did this transaction was because woggie22 had 5 years on Ebay and good feedback. This person has not contacted me and is a scammer.

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ladyangwl,
Call PayPal and tell them you are filing a complaint with the AG’s office about their erroneous
bank account transfers.
If you did NOT authorize them to pull this money out 5 times and they did. This could be considered embezzlement IMO.

We all know it is a glitch and so does PayPal.
They need to rectify the situation with you and compensate you for the NSF fees you incurred due to their glitch.



California AG's Office:
County of Santa Clara
Office of the District Attorney
Consumer Mediation Services
9am to noon and noon to 4pm
1-408-792-2880
California AG's Office Mailform
http://caag.state.ca.us/consumers/mailform.htm


Nebraska Office of the Attorney General
2115 State Capitol
Lincoln, NE 68509
(402) 471-2682
Toll-free Consumer Protection Line:
1-800-727-6432
Nebraska Office of the Attorney General
http://www.ago.state.ne.us/


Sorry this happened to you. :-(

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hello i am complaining because i ordered club pogo from them , it went thru my savings first time no problem then they went back thru 5 more times and my account got charged 25.00 each time ehat the heck, i now have to apy 125.00 in nsfs on my savings and pay pal says oh well not their problem.,

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<zenny>, can i make a suggestion that might help seller from being screwed... i had a buyer once who paid via pp great.. i sent goods he said thanks for item and everything was fine.
3 days later i got a mail from the guy saying the item wasnt as advertised .... woah take a step back... he\\\'d already told me the item was fine....

well he filed a claim with pp
They refunded his money i was told, because i couldnt prove the item wasnt as advertised.

But... what pp didnt realise.. is i always take my money out my pp account as soon as a buyer pays, so pp refunded the buyer, couldnt steal the money off me, pp looses out :)

I got a number of identical emails from pp requesting money. to each one i replied with the situation and that i was giving them nothing.

I never use pp anymore, for UK buyers i accept NoChex.
Never again to pp.

I wish i could leave ebay too, as being the same company they have the same screwed up policies, but without ebay... where else can i sell my items online easily, without massive merchant fee\\\'s

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To all sellers: If it was reversed and you were the buyer, they'd still screw you over the same, because that's what they did to me. When I ordered from a website, paid using paypal back in 2002, I never received the item. At first, it was back ordered. Paypal's 30 day limit to dispute isn't enough time, because back orders can take a little over a month. I didn't notice anything until I decided to email the seller and cancel the order. Since I paid instantly through Paypal, I didn't buy it when they said it would take a month to get my refund back. This was just 34 days after ordering. Paypal wouldn't do anything. I found out that particular website was restrlcted from receiving payments through paypal and mentioned that on the phone to them. I used that az part of the point when I was being ripped off by that seller. It didn't matter that I had emails from that seller admitting that they didn't send me anything. I totally confronted them about the fact that I knew they restricted them from receiving payments. They knew, but wouldn't admit anything to me. So, it can go both ways, but I know this isn't new to most of you on this site. One thing I did do right is that I always had a feeling about every leaving any money in the Paypal account. I ALWAYS had it transfered into my regular bank account. It's a good thing, because they froze my account too, but I had no balance in it. The word SUCK isn't even powerful enough of a word to describe how I feel about them.

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<Common Sense>, I agree with you, I personally lost funds to PayPal and have my lawyers hounding them at the present time. So yes they do keep the funds. Look at this portion of the email they sent to me.

"After reviewing your PayPal account, we have determined there to be
excessive risk involved and would like to begin parting ways in a manner
that is least disruptive to your business.

If your PayPal account balance is zero, and you have no outstanding issues
such as unresolved Buyer Complaints or chargebacks, your account will
remain limited."

Now the funny thing is they try to make it sound like they will let me get my funds, etc. So I tried to go into my account and withdraw my funds, of course since it is limited, thats impossible. I tried to complete my claim against a seller who sent me the wrong item. Of course that doesnt work either. I wrote to them about my funds, they said, sorry but your account is limited, which means they wont refund it.

Tried calling, of course that doesnt work, they say the same thing and if I get too huffy they say hold on, wait 10 minutes and just hang up the phone. So I got tired of it and just decided to use the law instead.

Jon

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<Shawn>, We are obviously not on the same page..you are talking about held funds as if paypal actually RETURNS the money!!! I guess again the reason that paypal is constantly being sued and paying out class action suits is simply because people would rather pick on them than banks right? If all these claims are bogus, why does paypal continue to pay them? Oh Im sure you have an answer for that one just like the fact that maybe they might actually be true!! Noooo not paypal!!

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I think talking that through has explained the difference to me (what follows is conjecture): I think credit card banks work with PayPal's merchant bank, not with PayPal. Second, since PayPal is the end consumer as far as their bank is concerned, PayPal gets to pick which charges to contest and how. In other words, while you could provide evidence directly to your merchant bank and they would figure whether they believed you, now you provide it to PayPal and THEY decide whether to send it to the merchant bank -- who may or may not believe you.

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PayPal DOES NOT act as the agent of either party in any transaction or resulting dispute, [That's Paypal telling you, they are not doing this on your behalf, but all actions taken will be to protect THEIR interests, NOT yours!] though PayPal does control the outcome of disputes initiated through the Service's dispute resolution process.

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From https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside



Quote:
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PayPal reserves the right not to dispute a chargeback even if the seller has provided some evidence, particularly if PayPal believes the dispute is not likely to be successful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's their out. PayPal spends a huge amount of time trying to convince users that they (PayPal) will fight vigorously on their users behalf. They spend several pages on their site making all sorts of general and unspecific claims. But then they put in a notice that says PayPal might not do anything if PayPal doesn't want to.

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I've worked in banks long enough to know that the only way that PayPal's backing bank would agree to run PayPal at some ridiculously low rate (far lower than the 2.99% or 2.5% they charge) is if PayPal keeps a really low dispute rate. In other words as long as PayPal doesn't contest stuff up to their bank they can keep their rates low. I'll bet their backing bank doesn't even let them contest intra-PayPal disputes.

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<Shawn>, 30 days??? Not any of the banks I have worked for and I have worked for a few! Mastercard and Visa may have up to 30 days to process a claim but banks I have worked for have always tried to do the right thing and return funds within days once the claim is processed. While banks do reinvest your money and make a profit, they are not allowed to just KEEP your funds and not return them upon request. Where I come from that's stealing! Let's see, up to 30 days vs 180 days AND we get to keep your money after that. But I think paypal would rather just payout class action suits than address that minor detail so it can do business as usual. There's a lot more where it came from right!

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