ref31, in response to this particular B.S. - is it not paypals responsibilty to ensure that a person is the legitimate owner/registered user of the credit card before it accepts the payment, and that the cardholders address is also the delivery address, also, is the original owner of the card that has been fraudulantly used not responsible to a certain point? - why is the onus put on the seller who does not have access to card security information at the point of sale? - it appears to me that the card companies shaft the cardholder, while paypal is busy shafting the seller! - a skim skim situation for paypal & the card companies, & one in the tailpipe for everybody else! - except for those smart people who purchase card protection insurance, then only the seller gets violated!

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MrPat,
Paypal refunded a buyer who claimed not to have received the goods I sent. I had proof of posting but apparently this wasn't good enough as I needed a tracking number. The buyer refused to pay for and didn't require insurance on the goods but paypal still say I am at fault. The buyer now has the goods and my money. Paypal also charge me an admin fee on top. Where does paypal provide protection for sellers?? It is too much of a risk and I have closed my account.
Lynne

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[PAYPAL ARE THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF FUKIN IGNORANT TWATS I HAVE EVER HAD TO DEAL WITH!!

DO NTO DEAL WITH THSI BUNCH OF FUKIN MORONS UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE ALL YOUR MONEY THROGUH NO FAULT OFYOUR OWN!!

I AM CURRENTLY SEAKING LEGAL ADVICE AND HAVE A STRONG CASE!!

****S

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<Greg>, God, what a mess! Sellers are unhappy, buyers are unhappy. Genuine people are being screwed on both sides. I bought a perfume and then found out that perfumes are not allowed to be shipped. Informed the seller and she said she would refund. This never happened and I contact Paypal about their wonderful promises that I would be protected. They were completely useless. In the end they were able to get me $2.48 back from the seller when I paid $20 odd dollars in US currency (almost double that in mine). In frustration I contacted my bank here and they said that after 3 months I could file for fraud, which I did. Got messages from Paypal threatening me that I might get my account closed and felt pretty upset about that too. Bad experience for me. And reading some of the seller's responses about removing all funds from account once money is paid I can't help but think that some unscrupulous sellers will get some great ideas here.

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I also as a Seller was ripped off by Paypal.I sold an $105.00 item,and the buyer said they did not recieve it.Paypal took the money out of my account. I e-mailed Paypal shipping receipts,and insurance receipts from the post office.They said that was not proof that I mailed this package out even though it had this buyers City State and zip on it.They said I could of forged the documents.So I went to the Post Office,and they tracked the package through the insurance number and it was deliveed to this buyer.Post Office made me a copy of this U.S. Postal Service document that said package was delivered on 12/20/2005 at 2:15 PM and Paypal told me still not enough proof.I am filing mail fraud charges agaisnt Paypal,and this buyer.I talked to 3 different managers at Paypal,and they were all jerks.Paypal sucks and they do nothing to protect the Seller.

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PAYPAL IS ALL BULLSH*T IM SORRY BUT ONCE A CUSTOMER BOUGHT A POCKET RECORDER FROM US, HE BARELY SPOKE ENGLISH BUT HE KNEW ENOUGH ENGLISH TO ADMIT THAT, AFTER SUCCESFULLY USING IT AND ENJOYING IT, HE WANTED TO RETURN IT FOR HIS MONEY BACK. CUSTOMER ADMITTED IT WORKED BUT HAD NO MORE USE FOR IT, AFTER THEIR SO CALLED SPECIALISTS INVESTIGATED IT, THEY RULED IN FAVOR OF THE CUSTOMER, SICK ANIMALS.... HE GETS HIS $150 BACK AND WE LOSE OUT ON THE MONEY IT COST TO SHIP THE ITEM TO HIM. UGHHHHHH!!!

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<KC>,

If your a seller and someone files a charge back, PayPal will have no problem freezing your account until you put money back to pay back the charge back amount to the buyer. Then when you file an appeal and its in your favor, those asshxles say, "oh it was in your favor contact the buyer for them to send you the money." PayPal will do jack about it.

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<Ed>,
PP really does SUX huh??

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PaypalSucks,
I too was ripped off by Paypal. I sold an Everquest account on Ebay, guy bought it with a stolen credit card. 3 months later Paypal sends me a message stating the buyers money was stolen, and they take money out of my account. I read through their stipulations, then realize there is no coverage for electronic goods.

Another time I bought a trading card worth $270, the seller sent me some crap worth 50 cents. Paypal found my claim to be valid, but I only got refunded $175. Because I was only "covered" up to $200, of course minus another $25 fee.

It's bull, that company is a joke.

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TonyG,
From what I've seen and read you are 100% correct.
They don't even bother to look at the facts.
It is NOT in their best monetary interest to do so.

ebay by virtue of them buying PP has indeed become SCAM CENTRAL.

More and more folks out here are quite aware of that FACT.

About 8 out of 10 people I talk too.
Regular folks, have ALL stated:
They DO NOT shop at ebay anymore for obvious reasons.

The sad part is ebay and PP know this too
and do little to nothing to combat the rampant fraud on their own site.

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In my experience Paypal NEVER fight a chargeback. A good example recently - and we've had similar in the past...

An item is shipped AND signed for by the card holder at the address registered to the card. 4 weeks later we then get a notification about a chargeback claim for "unauthorized transaction" and are asked to send the standard proof of delivery etc by fax.

We contact the customer with a rather strong email and either there was a genuine mistake or the customer decided against theft after receiving our email, but either way he states that there was a mistake at his bank, he has indeed received the item and wants to keep it and pay for it.

We send the proof of delivery, a copy of the communication with the guy and state the obvious i.e. it was shipped to the cardholders address and signed for by the cardholders so how could it be 'unauthorized'?

10 days later we get an email saying the chargeback went through and they have debited the money from us.

Fight chargebacks? They don't even bother to look at the facts or read any information given. The problem is if you then pursue it too heavily you risk finding your own account locked for anyone of a dozen 'loophole' reasons, so when you depend on PP for international transactions you just have to keep your mouth shut and swallow the loss. PP hate people making a fuss whether in the right or not and will simply lock accounts for those that do. I've known far too many people had it happen :(

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mee, Good luck on that. Paypal will use this opportunity and every opportunity like it to basically "hold your funds" in a "permanent" sort of way if you know what I mean. You can email, cry, scream and yell but the only two ways I have seen anyone get their funds back is either "Luck" or "Legal action". I suggest the latter!

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And they said give them 5 business days. HUh uh! They told me over the phone a 72 hour waiting period before spp kicks in. No way...72 hours is tomorrow.

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Okay, now what do I do?

I received notification $215 of mine is being held for a chargeback on Dec 24th. The item in question was sold Nov 30th. The woman paid me twice. I refunded one of the transactions and have the email receipt. I also have the online tracking number for said item and provided that in my dispute resolution.

So I called the lady to see what exactly is up her butt-she is clueless! Says she never did anything and is happy with her item! I asked her to please call Paypal and ask for it to be dropped. There is also suspicious activity on her side pertaining to another amount that she "paid" out to me that is pending..it's not pending nor has it gone through on my side. I really want to believe her because she has been very communicative with me-emails, phone calls, etc. I have received no information from paypal.

Why do they still have my money if it SHOULD be covered under SPP? LOL, I know... They are looking for loopholes right?

What's my next step...this reeks of paypal fraud.

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<1stCrgeBack>, I would not hold my breath on getting any money back from Paypal. Once they get their hands on your money, it's usually too late. They will wear you down asking for endless documentation but that's only to give you the impression they are actually doing something. My advice is to read thru the entire site and it will become very clear as to what their tactics are and what if anything you can do about it!

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