offshoreworld, You/we need a lawyer or law firm that specializes in class action lawsuits and that specialize in merchant versus bank/credit card company or such. In my limited opinion. In Mexico, they say about a little fish "One big fish fills the pan, a bunch of little ones fill the pan".

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PaypalSucks, I got ripped off by a jerk who, when I stopped payment on a transfer from my bank account and filed a dispute, responded to PayPal and supplied them with a Delivery Confirmation number. The instant they received that, they then charged my debit card tied to the same account. When the "lot of guitar necks" got here a weel later in an envelope and the Delivery Confirmation number was scanned by the postal worker, there was proof I had received what I paid for. In a frigging envelope. Refute that - there is no evidence that this envelope is what was delivered. So I supposedly received "1 lot of finished Stratocaster guitar necks" and tried to rip off the poor seller. My account was frozen, PayPal had cleaned out my account even though I had emailed them all the emails related to this deal including where I told him I refused to go any further since he refused to contact me in any way. PayPal was going to fight to protect me. Oh hell yeah. And I was born to be the next emperor of China. Still broke.

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cashzzz,


Hello, I am a merchant services manager for a community bank and deal with chargebacks everyday.

I came across this site and didn't know Paypal had so much going wrong with it. It doesn't sound like they are representing the merchants very well. Although, that said...

Visa and MasterCard have made their business catering to the cardholder as I'm sure most of you well know- but on top of that they make the merchant pay for it. Their chargeback regulations make it a guilty until proven innocent situation for the sellers. But there are steps you can take to improve your situation.

First off- I know it's a big part of many of your businesses- you will most of the time hold all of the liability for international transactions. Visa/MC say you need a positive response for a cardholder billing address AND send your product to that address to be within their regulations- but the catch is they don't have a system that can verify international billing info- so you're SOL.

Second- If a cardholder claims that you sent them damaged or not as described goods- you are better off asking the customer to send back the product. If you restrict them in any way to sending the item back- you will lose the chargeback. You will still probably lose - as you have to prove without a doubt they received it in the right condition (I still have not found a way to do that)- you will at least have your product back.

Third- The cardholder has sixty days from their statement date to dispute a charge. That means it could really be 90 days. There are some cases where it can go longer- but for the most part keep all documents involving each transaction at least a year.

Fourth- Make sure Paypal is confirming the 2 code on the back of the card. If this is correctly processed and matched- it should protect you from ANY fraud type of chargeback.

Fifth- Be very weary of people ordering big "to good to be true orders"- it usually is.

Sixth- Post your return policy every place you can. Make sure without a doubt that the customer will read it (or have access to it) during their order.

Seven- Be overly detailed when describing your product. There is no way to describe too much. This will help with the description of product chargebacks.

I'm in no way protecting Paypal- from these stories it seems like they aren't living up to their promises in representing the merchants strongly to the issuing banks (that's who's really getting your money). But they do have to play by Visa and Mastercards rules. Being in the business they make it pretty frustrating. I'm also not promoting by bank in any - I doubt I could help most of you since we are pretty small. I just wanted to share information to those who seem could benefit.

If anyone had any more questions please feel free to reply to this post. Hope I helped.

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Paypal sucks alright, my very first selling experience and the Customer in New Zealand (downunderparts) does a bank chargeback. I received payment for my mountain bike so I sent it off to him the next day.

I checked my acount 2 months later and I find the funds have been reversed by the ebayer(downunderparts). After many emails he replies that he's not aware that there was a chargeback/reversal and that he would check with his bank. My feeling is he's lying through his rotten teeth. From what I've been reading on this forum is it true that Chargebacks can only be initiated by the customer, if this is so then he's definitely lying.

This is a hard lesson to learn on my first sales transaction but I'm going to nail this bugger. I will post my results in a month or so to let you all know how this cheat got fried.

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PaypalSucks, After 6 months Paypal allowed a chargeback to continue. This is beyond their own rules I think. I just dont have time to fight these as I am busy making money. But I absolutely think Paypal does suck. And they also don't take credit cards for many countries which is limiting for my sales. I'm waiting for other credit card processors such as Google. The only reason why Paypal has been growing is because of the lack of alternative online credit card processors. There are a few but they are really stupid for charging high set up fees.

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PaypalSucks, I think we should find a lawyer suitable for us. I did contact dozens of attorney and nobody take a small case:
I think we need to give more solutions in this forum!
This is one of the answer I got:
Thank you for contacting us regarding PayPal.



This email is in response to your question regarding the PayPal class action settlement and the problems you are having with PayPal. We reviewed your circumstances with PayPal as reflected in your email, and we believe that your complaints may fall outside the scope of the class action settlement. This firm focuses on class action lawsuits and does not handle individual consumer cases. At this time we are not interested in pursuing another investigation against PayPal. As to your present situation with PayPal, please be advised that should you wish to pursue any claims you may have against PayPal, it is important that you consult another attorney promptly, as the passage of time affects your rights due to the applicable statute of limitations that apply to all potential claims. These statutes differ depending on the type of claim asserted and the state in which your claim arises.

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annythewitch,
I HATE PAYPAL!

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<Rob>,

That's downright pathetic that paypal can't do anything about recovering funds even though the seller's bank account and/or credit card is still active in the paypal account. They could force access to the seller's funds, but from what you said, all they can do is send emails begging for money. I really wish those rumors about Google developing a payment service are true. I don't expect perfection, but c'mon! All they bothered to refund me is around 2% of how much I paid. I guess I'm gonna have to start selling my junk on Amazon instead and buying stuff on ebay with checks.

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workshop1611,
Ignore NCO. Search the forums for information on how to make them go away. You have the money and the customer can pay the storage fees to get their scooter. I can't see their problems about a day late if it is beyond your control. You even went out of your ways. Contact the shipping company and tell them to bug the person who bought and paid for the scooter.

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Hello
I have been in a crazy situation for a while now. Our business was doing really well before we had a charge back of over $1,200.00 from PayPal. They Promised us they would fight the charge back, but it was a lost cause. The money was not in the account due to us using the funds to purchase the item the customer wanted. In this case it was a Mobility Scooter through our other Business which is called Scooter-Outfitters. The reason for the charge back is because the shipping company was a day late in their delivery due to a mix up not caused by us. Everything that we did in processing their order and getting it shipped was perfect, but the shipping company made a mistake and the item was supposably a day late, and the customer refused the order when it arrived. We only charged half the price to the customer to ship the item to them. Shipping one way was over $300.00. We only charged the customer $125.00. Now that we have taken over a $175.00 loss on the shipping getting it to the customer, Now we have to pay another $300.00 to get it back because the customer does not want it and the shipping company is going to charge us a storage fee for every day they have to hold it. I have been contacted by NCO Collections about the matter and they said I owe PayPal over $1,200.00. I informed them about my Loss and asked what they intended to do for me due to the customer had no legitimate reason to refuse the Order in the first place and request a charge back on their credit card. If PayPal looks in my account and there is no money how do they then put me in the negative which is against PayPal Policy. It looks to me that they put themselves in the Negative and now I have to suffer for it. I am not out only the $1,200.00 + Dollars, but also an additional $300.00 to get the merchandise back. I do agree I owe Money back to PayPal, but I believe if I have to take a loss so do they. I want to be reimbursed for all the shipping expense I encountered. Maybe I should have my business write up a bill and send it to PayPal for my expenses.
I don't really care if I ever use their services again. I am Finished with PAYPAL.
NCO collections is another nightmare. Do they even know what each other in the office is doing? Could someone shed a little light on what this poor broke Business Owner should do? please send me a cyber aspirin:(

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excel, I am not altogether sure why you would want to get a new account with the company that screwed you.
I am confused.

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Sensable, Yep, that be the one.
Hey though... should I dispute my charge through my credit card AND ebay, or just my credit card?
I think it is just a shame that everyone isn't honest. I actually believe people because I would
never lie. I am going to give up online auctions totally... I was getting a little bit obsessive
about buying collectibles anyway.

My story is: I bought what I thought was a college textbook from half.com (offshoot of ebay). This
item was listed as a Hardcover Textbook, and there was a memo that said it was really a CD. The long
and short of it is that when I realized what I had actually ordered, I tried to cancel the order within
5 minutes of placing the order. The seller refunded my money except for about $10, even though he listed
his item under the wrong ISPN number... and told me I should learn to read (probably true) and that I was
lucky he hadn't shipped the item yet, because then he would not refund a penny. I, then, (a minute late
and a dollar short) read his feedback, and it seems if the feedback is to be believed that he is actually
burning copywrited CD's and selling them as authentic.
In any case, I left negative feedback because at that point I decided that unless I can see or touch something
with my own eyes I will not buy it. And then his negative feedback to me stated that he gave me a FULL refund.
I did screen copies of everything, and I think I can get my $10 back just because he said he gave me a FULL
refund. Worse case scenario I only lost $10, but I will never lose another penny to either ebay, paypal, half.com,
or alibris. I think I got off cheap.

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villaine, what if you use a new info, new CC, and new bank account ?

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annythewitch, Ahh, the infamous "paypal user agreement" is this the same user agreement that a top operations VP from one of the largest banks in the world and a very prominent successful business attorney said when they reviewed it and I quote "is a joke" It can't be the same one is it??

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is it that easy to open a new account ? what if you open account under a different name and use the same name for bank ? do you have to use your real name for bank ?

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