Quote:

---

this is what happened with me:
1. sold $4500 item
2. buyer paid via credit card
3. buyer decided to return the item, and claimed that he send it back
4. buyer had usps tracking number, which states item was delivered but can NOT confirm the address it was delivered (no insurance, no register, no signature confirmation)

paypal tried to disupte the chargeback ,but they were unsuccesfull

now I do not my product back, and negative 4500 paypal account.

what should I do?

Thanks for your help.

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Quote:

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If the buyer never truly returned the item to you, go file a police report. It is stolen goods after all. There is a certain amount of risk you have to assume when you do business online.

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Ok, so the time limit is 1 year to do a chargeback? Correct?

Next, what if the chargeback is for something that was taken off of eBay to sell. Can buyer still file chargeback then? What happens when it was money sent, can the buyer still file for chargeback?

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OK I need advice too ..

I am in a similar situation. I sold a Nintendo Wii on Ebay on Monday, shipped on Tuesday to the confirmed address. On Thursday night, the money was debited from my account as the account was reported for "unauthorized use". The post office screwed up and I have no signature. The customer called and emailed me repeatedly that its legit that PayPal froze everything when she lost her PayPal debit card. We both talked to her post office. I have every bit of proof in the world except for a signature from her or a direct email from her to PayPal and so unless I get that I am screwed. Unless someone here has some advice, my only alternative is the nuclear option of filing my own criminal complaint just to prove that she has it and really hurt a family who may very well be telling me the truth.

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I need some advice and would like to share a problem im having with paypal.First of all ive bought and sold on ebay for years with no problems except the buyer who thought he should get his items before he paid.(my one and only negative feedback) loser. After searching ebay for a Playstation 3 system night after night after night, it was late on 11-28-06 and here is a guy selling a 60 gig Ps3 with 3 games and a controller with reciept.Checked his feedback and he had 9 positives.So i won and emailed him instantly.He replied and i sent payment via paypal for 2 day priority shipping with $66.00 balance and $900.00 credit card.He was suppose to send shipping info next day.Tracking and ect.Never recieved it nor any email for a week.Finally i get an email from him saying thanks for the dispute bro, i cant ship your package because my paypal account is limited because of your dispute.I never disputed anything. I sent him an email back saying where have you been, and wheres my stuff.What dispute are you talking about.He sent me another email saying send me your email addy.So i did and another 5 days go buy and guess what? no response. So i went to paypal and opened up a dispute.He sent them a ups tracking lable number which says when you check it billing information recieved.The same day he sent them that info he emailed me and apologized that it was paypals fault that he couldnt print lable or ship item out, and his friend is printing the lable for him.I told him no big deal but lets get it done.I waited and waited and i get nothing. So i call ups and give them the number day after day after day and they tell me someone printed a lable but the package was never recieved for shipping. I fowarded this info to paypal and even spoke with a brainless person on the phone.Your case is in review.I even told them and ebay that the sellers contact info is fake, name is wrong no address and phone number is not his.They have this persons info and still cant tell you jack squat.So my question is should i keep waiting for paypal to figure this out or go directly to my credit card company and dispute it? I dont want to cause a conflict of intrest, but im afraid if i wait to long i wont get my full amount back.most of the transaction was with a credit card and a small amount from paypal balance.I dont want to slam them and would like to be patient but from the time ive spent reading all these threads im not sure what to do.Its 3 weeks today that the dispute was started.Here i sit waiting for something to happen.Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

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So...

I have a customer at my business, who made a $3500 payment to me via paypal. The accountant for my customer gets the CC statement, and doesn't recognize the charge, thinking, "hey we don't have a paypal account"... The accountant then proceeds to call PAYPAL (not the CC company) to find out what the charge is for.

The rep at paypal tells him they will investigate it for him. I get an email at like 3am the other day stating that I have a chargeback for the $3500 order, and the chargeback reason is Unauthorized use of the card. I call the customer, and they get back to me a little bit later and tell me what the accountant did, and then proceed to tell me that they hadnt expressed any interest in doing a chargeback with their credit card company (AMEX)...

Anyway, I call paypal with my customer on the phone in a conference call. We both explain the situation, and they tell us that ONLY the Issuing Credit Card Company can initiate a chargeback, and not someone calling them directly. We get on the phone with AMEX, and AMEX states that there is no pending chargeback and the rep at PayPal tells the AMEX people on the conference call that there is a chargeback, even though AMEX says directly that there inst one. Paypal states otherwise, even when the amex people state that there never was a chargeback in the first place and it is not indicated in their records.

The issue I am having though, Paypal should have never begun the original chargeback process, because the card issuer never initiated it at the time, and paypal themselves told me they do not do chargebacks unless it comes direct from the issuer. Anyway, now there IS a chargeback, because I told the customer to go ahead and cancel the payment and they are now fedexing me a cashier's check for the amount. Luckily I wasnt a victim of customer fraud like many of you here, just paypal not following their own rules, and then denying it to all parties involved including the issuing card company. Even before issuing the real chargeback, paypal insisted that I still needed to go through the resolution system and were still holding the funds as an unauthorized payment.

Needless to say, it is time to open a REAL merchant account for my business, Ive needed it for a while now with the way sales are going. No more paypal for me. Ive had enough problems with them already with the paypal debit card not working properly - a whole total different story that I will not get into in this thread... - and now this is just the final straw.

The bank acct I had on file was actually closed in June, and I hadn't gotten around to getting a new checking account due to the fact that I had been solely using paypal debit card and my paypal funds themselves as my means to get by - never used checks or anything from the other account anyway...


so, now that there is a real chargeback on there, my account is now negative $3300 or so on paypal, and since the acct i had on file is closed, and the credit card # they had on file was the visa debit card for the closed checking account, they will not be able to collect from that. Am I correct to assume, that they will be putting collections on me for the amount?

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chocolate12, well in order to discuss and issue with you they can only ask you for your email, last 4 digits of accnt number, and telephone numbe, that's all. They don't have to ask you for other info.

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just wanted to ask a question, when i call paypal, can they ask me for my bank account number, my social inurance number? What else cant they ask from me for future refrences? thanks

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Annrcks, you must inform law enforcement authorities in your buyer's city so that you can at least get your laptop back, try retrieving that information from the department of justice website related to your buyer state, you can get it from any good search engine. Again that will help you getting back the laptop or even the money, i don't think your buyer will be brave enough to ignore notifications from law enforcement authorities, there is people who have reported success in getting goods back from their buyers after doing what i just told you.

And regarding paypal, even if it will be hard to make paypal give you your money back it will be very important that you report your case with the attorney generals in your state, California and Nebraska, in these 2 last states paypal operates. Inform them what happened and if possible print evidence of their nasty emails or recorded phone conversations, inform them that Paypal forced you to reveal sensitive information and they don't want to destroy it, this is illegal according to many friends who are lawyers or student of laws, and even an extorsion considering they force you to do something illegal in order to grant you a right. But my friend do all this!!! if you stay silent the rest of your life by not dennouncing this abuse then Paypal will keep partying and laughing about how they screw their clients they way they please! Plese keep us informed of your progress, your testimonials are very important!

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PaypalSucks,

ok i sold a laptop for 1K and paypal requested all my info like ssn, license as in everything and i sent i faxed it all to them, thats done! im clean and true! but they insist that the buyer MUST RECEIVE THE ITEM FIRST and promise me that they will removed the limitation right away i will be able to get my money in minutes!!..
they waited till' the day that the buyer got the item and then informed me that its a fraud and that buyer paid me from a stolen account... (isn't it suspicious?) well i think that paypal make all this bs "fraud accounts" wait till they get the money or item then lie and keep everything!

im only a student and i sold my only laptop to pay for my college tuition fee, i was also told over the phone by paypal managers and representative so many times that im coverned with the "seller/buyer protection program" and that if the buyer is fraud then i'll be able to get my money upto 1K. "PAYPAL LIED AND I WAS NEVER PROTECTED" so i ended up having a -$3.54..
after lossing my money and wasn't able to pay for my college i got a really bad depression co'z of what happen (it ruined my year).

i got a surgery and did not have any money on my bank account.. they keep trying to withdraw that $3.54 (asctually they tried to round it up to 4 dollars) i owe them and i got overdraft fees and daily fee's that went up all the way to $264 .. when i got out from the hospitali was shocked that they still keep doing this ****s....

so i sent them money order of 5 dollars and told them to just leave me alone and that they can keep the change of $1.46 and stop whinning about lousy freaking $3.54..
now i gotta pay the $264 fee on my account which they cause... but now when i try to close my account they sent me this!!!

*note: the email i got earlier from paypal*

From: service@paypal.com
>Reply-To: service@paypal.com
>To: ******annrcks******
>Subject: PayPal Account Status
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:28:51 -0800
>
>Dear *******annrcks*******,
>
>We appreciate your interest in PayPal; however, our decision to leave your
>account in a permanent limitation status is final.
>
>PayPal reserves the right to limit access to any account reported to be
>involved in possible fraudulent or high risk behavior. In the event of a
>dispute, PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your
>PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal
>balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any
>other legal means.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Alyxx
>PayPal Account Review Department
>PayPal, an eBay Company


ok so they clearly violated Electronic Funds Transfer Association (EFTA)regulation and law...

they can keep the lousy 1.46 from my account.. whatf******ever.... im already depress and could not focus on my schooling CO'Z OF THEM.. ***K i cant even do homework online (co'z i have no more laptop) and cost me so much fine.. im just a freaking student.

HELP ANYONE PLEASE!!!! i really wanna close my account and i want them to get rid of all MY INFO like my ssn, license and specially bank account co'z i know they will make ***t up again and take my money!

they wont let me close and if you all read the email i got from them, they are very rude and just dont give a rats ass... can anyone help me.. what should i tell them.. thanks!!

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The truth of the matter is that Paypal is actually at the mercy of the credit card companies just as much as you are. They can't force AMEX or Visa to give you your money back. Haikaa, it sounds as if you withdrew the funds, and that's why your account went negative. Otherwise they would have just taken the 4500 dollars and your account would be at zero. If the buyer never truly returned the item to you, go file a police report. It is stolen goods after all. There is a certain amount of risk you have to assume when you do business online. Large companies calculate for loss and incorporate that into their yearly financial planning. If you plan on doing business online, you have to ask yourself "What am I willing to lose?" If you can't find an answer that suits you, you probably shouldn't be doing business online. Most 'horror stories' stem from not being educated as to all parties involvement. Remember, the CC companies have their rules, Paypal has it's rules, eBay has it's rules and you have to abide by ALL of them to keep protected and sometimes even that isn't enough. Also Haikaa, keep in mind Paypal tried to dispute the chargeback on your behalf. If you lost it was the buyer's CC company that made the decision. So the best thing to do is file a police report in the buyer's home town and get your merchandise back.

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haikaa, I would suggest that you first verify with UPS to find out whether the buyer has actually shipped the item back to you. If the item is missing for no reason, then plan your next move.

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PaypalSucks,
I would heartily suggest that each and every oneof you who has ever had a problem with paypal bombard your STATE attorney generals with complaints, and make the SPECIFIC DEMAND that ALL state ATTY GENERALS get together and PROSECUTE PAYPAL using the RICO STATUTES. RICO = Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization
Go READ the RICO statutes... there are TEETH in there that specifically relate to the way paypal treats those who give it reason to exist.INTERSTATE FRAUD is still fraud, andwhile you are at it, forward ALL correspondence to the INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSION.

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this is what happened with me:
1. sold $4500 item
2. buyer paid via credit card
3. buyer decided to return the item, and claimed that he send it back
4. buyer had usps tracking number, which states item was delivered but can NOT confirm the address it was delivered (no insurance, no register, no signature confirmation)

paypal tried to disupte the chargeback ,but they were unsuccesfull

now I do not my product back, and negative 4500 paypal account.

what should I do?

Thanks for your help.

CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE

PAYPAL does not follow thru with chargebacks. My experience would be a great test case.

I sold Tumi luggage to ebay buyer on May 16th. Buyer emails me 20 times in 2 days complaining that item has degree of scuffing that is different than my descrip, though I clearly state and present photographs that it was store floor model with wheel and base scuffing, like new, NOT brand new. Buyer demands 75% reimbursement and before I could respond buyer files claim with paypal dispute resolution center. I respond with return for full refund because I did not want headache. Paypal instructs buyer to return within 10 days. No response from buyer to Paypal or me, in May, June, or July. Then, on July 10th, chargeback with credit card company, and my paypal account is deducted the sale. I file response within the 10 days as instructed by Paypal. Paypal states they have responded to chargeback on July 26h. Paypal informs me bank has 75 days to issue decision, thus October 9th. Then on August 17th the Tumi luggage is returned to my address, and item is used. Item is returned 4 months after I shipped. I have photos of item when I shipped, and when returned. THAT'S WHERE PAYPAL THINKS THE STORY ENDS. No word ever again from Paypal. I call and inquire continuously. I email. On October 10th I contact Paypal and cust rep on phone and via email say no word from bank yet. Then on Oct 12th, email received from Paypal stating bank found in Buyer's favor, and no reimbursement.

What store, what company, what individual thinks that someone can use an item for 4 months and return it, no questions asked?

PAYPAL.

So, now what? Contact Attorney General, small claims court? None of that is worth my trouble for $275...BUT THIS ISSUE, EVEN THOUGH FOR $275 AND NOT $1000s LIKE OTHERS, IS SIGNIFICANT. This is breach of Paypal's agreement with its customers, and with stockholders.

Advice? Thanks.

Attached below is a little of the correspondance of this sordid little tale.


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Paypal" <complaint-response@paypal.com>, "Paypal Chargeback" <chargeback-appeal1@paypal.com>

I received Paypal email today stating the appeal process has been found in Ms. Lewis's favor, and that Paypal can not act anymore on my behalf.

I called Paypal and spoke with customer rep in dispute resolution center.

If this case is NOT deemed a priority and considered a test case for any chargeback appeal, I dont know what else you could find. I WILL PURSUE THIS CASE FURTHER, AND REQUEST PAYPAL'S COOPERATION, AND REIMBURSEMENT OF $275 TO MY ACCOUNT IMMEDIATELY.

Ms. Lewis possessed this item for 4 MONTHS prior to sending item back. Ms. Lewis did not follow any directions or instructions by me in May to return the item, or by Paypal to return the item.

Ms. Lewis did send back the Tumi Luggage in mid-August, and I opened the box today, 10/11/2006: THE LUGGAGE WAS USED, AS EVIDENT BY STAINING ON THE FABRIC AND DISCOLORATION AND SCARRING ON THE TRIM OF THE LUGGAGE. My item descrip clearly stated scuffing of wheels, NOT OF THE TRIM OR ANY DISCOLORATION. I have pictures and video to support this.

I NEVER RECEIVED COMMUNICATION FROM PAYPAL REGARDING MS. LEWIS'S BANK DECISION, and yet was told by cust rep today on phone that the decision was made on Aug 4th. I never received this communication AND YET HAVE CALLED AND EMAILED PAYPAL REPEATEDLY SINCE JULY 20TH, when I filed my response to chargeback.

I DEMAND ANSWERS. I REQUEST DOCUMENTATION THAT SUPPORTS PAYPAL ASSERTION THAT PAYPAL FILED MY RESPONSE WITH MS. LEWIS'S BANK.

I REQUEST PAYPAL FILE A CLAIM WITH MS. LEWIS'S BANK FOR FRAUD, AND REIMBURSE ME FOR THE FULL $275 I AM OWED FOR THIS TRANSACTION, AND TO INFORM MS. LEWIS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR RETURN SHIPPING.

IF PAYPAL DOES NOT ACT ON MY BEHALF I WILL CONTACT THE Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, and other authorities, stating that Paypal has acted in breach of contract and policies, and issue supina for full documentation and correspondance by Paypal.

I NEVER RECEIVED ANY DECISION OR UPDATE FROM PAYPAL ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND WILL CONSULT MY LAWYER REGARDING PAYPAL FOR BREACH OF USER AGREEMENT, CONTRACT, AND PROCEDURES. According to correspondance and information provided to me by Paypal, I was to receive this decision directly from Paypal, and yet as of 10/11/2006, the decision had not been communicated to me via email or when I contacted via phone. It is my determination that Paypal NEVER filed this response on my behalf, that Paypal does NOT provide any support for individuals using its service, and thus by conclusion ALL individuals who accept Paypal payment with credit card should be put on notice that ANY chargeback will not be repealed as Paypal has no standing to argue against. I will contact my state's Attorney General regarding this issue. The buyer, Ms. Lewis, possessed this luggage for 4 months....4 months...then chargeback, then return, without following orders and instructions by Paypal or me initially, and then not following instructions per chargeback process. 4 months. You have not heard the last of me on this issue.

I want my ebay and paypal fees refunded for this transaction IMMEDIATELY.



protectionclaim@paypal.com wrote:

I am sorry to hear about this situation, and understand your frustration
and concern over the issue.

Chargebacks are initiated outside of PayPal and controlled by the card
issuer. Your customer's credit card company grants its members specific
consumer protections. Your customer chose to take advantage of those
consumer protection rights. These rights are guaranteed by the Credit
Card Company as well as applicable law, and as such we have no authority
to replace or reduce any customer's rights.

Unfortunately, PayPal did not win the dispute of the chargeback with the
buyer's credit card company. PayPal was unable to dispute this further
on your behalf. According to the documentation received from the buyer
and yourself, the merchandise was returned to you

At this time there is no further assistance PayPal can offer, we suggest
that you contact the buyer directly to request reimbursement.

You may consider attempting to resolve your issue through any means
available to you such as an auction website (if one was used for this
transaction), or through a law enforcement agency such as your local
police department. Should a criminal investigation arise out of your
complaint, please be aware that PayPal is committed to working with law
enforcement agencies.

A list of websites where complaints can be filed is as follow:

http://www.ic3.gov
http://www.fraudbureau.com/
http://www.antifraud.com/
http://www.fraud.org/

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,
Erica
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company


Original Message Follows:
------------------------

As of October 10th, 2006, I have not received confirmation that Ms.
Lewis' bank or Paypal has credited me the $275. Please see below for
Paypal
statement that Bank is allowed 75 days to respond to matter, after
which,
if bank does not reply I am credited $275 to my paypal account and case
closed. Ms. Michelle Lewis bought from me an item (Tumi
luggage) on ebay on May 16th, filed paypal claim on May 20th. I replied
during claim process via Paypal for return for full refund. Paypal
instructed Ms. Lewis to return for full refund within 10 days, due May
30th. Ms Lewis failed to act or communicate, or return item, and did not
contact me after this due date. Ms. Lewis filed chargeback on July 10th.
I
responded to chargeback on July 20th (see below). Paypal filed claim
with
Bank on July 26th on my behalf (see below). From that date, as noted
below,
Bank has 75 days to respond, which was October 9th (yesterday) deadline.
Ms. Lewis again failed to act appropriately and
shipped item back to me in mid-August after I responded via Paypal,
thus
never following directions from Bank, Paypal, or me, throughout this
process. I CONTACTED PAYPAL (SEE CALL ON RECORD AND EMAIL) STATING I
WILL
NOT AND HAVE NOT OPEN THIS BOX UNTIL I RECEIVE FINAL DETERMINATION. Ms.
Lewis had this item in her possession for 4 months before returning the
item, during which she most probably used the luggage and returned it in
condition not as originally shipped to her. I AM ACTING IN GOOD FAITH
AND
ACCORDING TO INTRUCTIONS AND GUIDELINES, AND DEMAND ACTION BE TAKEN ON
BY
BEHALF. Bank and Paypal MUST find in my favor due to this fraudulent
action, and reimburse me $275 for the total as per ebay/paypal final
value.
After reimbursement I would then appreciate Paypal informing Ms. Lewis
to
be responsible for return shipping of this item. As I stated in my
responses previously, I did not want this item returned due to the
length
of time Ms. Lewis had it in her possession
before returning it (thus probably used or damaged) and because Ms.
Lewis
failed to act in returning item in May as per Paypal instructions. IF
THIS
CLAIM IS NOT FOUND IN MY FAVOR, I WILL QUESTION WHAT PAYPAL DID TO
SUPPORT
ME IN THIS MATTER, AS I HAVE ACTED AND PROVIDED APPROPRIATELY AS PER
PAYPAL
INSTRUCTIONS, EBAY REGULATIONS, AND GENERAL CODES OF ETIQUETTE. I have
all
correspondance via email on record, with Paypal, with Ebay, and with Ms.
Lewis. Thanks.


chargeback-appeal1@paypal.com wrote:

Thank you for contacting PayPal. We show that you were not covered by
our Seller Protection Policy as it does not cover sellers for not as
described chargeback issues. However, we are disputing this chargeback
on your behalf, in an attempt to get either the merchandise or the money
back.
We must allow the buyers credit card company 75 days from 07/26/2006 to
respond. We will notify you once a response is received. If this dispute
is won on your behalf, your account will be credited for the charge.
Thank you for your patience and cooperation.
Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Sincerely,
Lena
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

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