PPgirl2,

Wow, does that explanation come with a free mask, gloves and shovel... because that is a load of sh*t !!!

I've spoken with other merchant sellers who use REAL merchant services, and when a chargeback comes in, the notice comes DIRECTLY from the credit card issuer bank to the seller, not through a super-secretive, hide it all middleman (aka paypal)

Paypal stands in the way of ALL of its transactions, you hold peoples money (so you can milk interest) and you claim that you are contacted by another party, yet show ZERO proof, its all about you trying to maintain draconian control over everything.

Well I'm using a REAL merchant service now, but more importantly I'm also using and supporting Google Checkout from now on, because I know Google is the one entity that can CRUSH paypal and if their GBuy service comes online as well, that will crush Ebay too and your money scamming days will come to an end, and it wont be a day too soon !!!


PP-Victim

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PP-victim, That's because you AGREE to have PayPal process the credit card transaction. You don't have a right to that information, just as the buyer doesnt have a right to any of your personal information. If you were to sue the credit card company, however, your lawyer could subpoena PayPal and we would happily give you the information, as it would then be LEGAL. We don't like the credit card companies any more than the sellers do. They have the luxury to defend their customer, your buyer, because they charge them interest on their money and lots of big fees. PayPal, on the other hand, does NOT. So who is the real evil one here?

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DeepSouth, yeah, PayPal does fight them. But you initiate it with your credit card company, not PayPal. And your credit card company was the one that declined it. PayPal does not have the luxury of just "declining" a chargeback! When a credit card company files a chargeback with PayPal, we are REQUIRED BY CREDIT CARD LAW to give them the money back RIGHT THEN. Then, WE have 30 days to give them evidence that the chargeback is not legit. THEN, THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY has 75 DAYS to decide whether or not they will give the money back to PayPal, so we can give it back to you, the seller. If they say no, PayPal gets no money, and the seller doesn't either. If the chargback was declined, it was declined by your credit card company, NOT PayPal!

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Thank you paypal for ruining my online gaming community. I had 3 gameservers going until someone issued a chargeback for a donation. I know I may sound like a nerd but alot of people played and had fun. My case may not seem like a big lost but I relied on it to keep my gameservers up. When some kid maid a donation of $27 and charged back. I lost that much so I was pissed. Then paypal charges a $10 fee for each chargeback ($27 in 3 payments). So my account is now $-23.20. The account was full of donations from my gameserver. Thanks paypal for taking donations you greedy b****. Never use paypal. I learned my lesson. Also lost $58 before thanks to paypal.

Sincerly, A Paypal hater.

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Good news! I got ALL of my money back (within 7 days!) by simply filing a simple online complaint with the Better Busines Bureau (against Discover). Even though Discover admitted no wrong doing, they applied a "courtesy credit" to my account.

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Quote:

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I fukin hate PAYPAL, I HATe all its ****in imagrant employees and i fukin hate their familes.

Ignorant, lying , decietfull littel ****ers, all of them are.

I plan to get revenge my own way ! **** going to court, **** doing things "by the book"..........they fukin dont !

I hope all paypal employees die of fukin aids and its slow, painfull and never ending !

May you all rot in hell you ****s ! Be seeing you real soon !!!!!!!!!

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1) did PayPal can limit an account full usage without provide any reason, is it legal?

Its legal in Paypals point of view, its their sandbox and if they want to kick sand in everyones face, or ram it down their throats, its Paypals right to do so.

2) if PayPal need user provide some document, which user think not reasonable, what will you do?

They'll just leave you in limbo for 120 days, and if you don't give them more info they lock your account and keep what info you gave them so you can't try and open another account.


3) if we found PayPal infringed "user agreement", what the user can do?

If they infringe upon it, then they'll simply change the UA without notice to suit their needs.

4) why PayPal always reply without origin message attached, what for?

Oh, you noticed that too, Paypal will always block out dates, figures, anything with numbers or such out of a reply or reply with no original message, so this way you can't directly use that reply to dispute things as Paypal will claim that it not what your original message said when they received it, though it'll be a cold day in hell before you'll ever see paypal showing any of their records or emails in a court of law.



PP-Victim

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dazlia, Helene, I'm glad for see you here, if you really PayPal employee, I have some question hope you can help me.

1) did PayPal can limit an account full usage without provide any reason, is it legal?
2) if PayPal need user provide some document, which user think not reasonable, what will you do?
3) if we found PayPal infringed "user agreement", what the user can do?
4) why PayPal always reply without origin message attached, what for?

Hoping for your soonest reply. Thanks!
Natalis

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I filed a charge-back against PayPal on my DISCOVER card since DISCOVER advertises "100% consumer protection against fraud and unauthorized charges." To make a long story short, I was UNSUCCESSFUL after following DISCOVER cards "dispute procedures" to the tee.

I have perfect credit and the highest FICO score; however, even after I filed an appeal with DISCOVER they still refused to credit my account the $25.23. I ended up closing my DISCOVER card because I was irate that I had spent SO MUCH TIME for NOTHING. While I was closing my account with DISCOVER, the CSR had the nerve to say "you can come back to DISCOVER for all your credit card needs. We even offer 100% fraud protection, etc, etc " and even asked if wanted to transfer my other balances to DISCOVER. How outrageous is that?

A few months prior, DISCOVER was calling me trying to sell their "consumer fraud monitoring service" for around $19.99 a month. Are they insane? I'm already supposed to be PROTECTED with the consumer protection act.

DISCOVER wanted me to furnish a tracking number which would prove I returned the (WRONG) ITEM which was sent to me. I'm not going to pay $15 for a tracking number to Germany to return an item worth $25 especially when I'm not planning on a dispute; however, I did have the delivery confirmation number, but that wasnt good enough for DISCOVER. Bottom line is I spent a good 40+ hours of my life (and the anxiety ruining my vacation) unsuccessfuly disputing a $25.23 charge with DISCOVER out of principle, and DISCOVER let me down big time.

I dont understand how DISCOVER freely gives people $20 to sign up for their service, however DISCOVER will fail its customers when it comes to fighting/disputing giant corporations like PayPal/Ebay who have a specific department to fight all chargebacks against them. PayPal says you give up your consumer protection rights when you sign up for the PayPal service. NOT!

Anyway, I will NEVER use DISCOVER or PayPal again. And my revenge is not only cancelling my DISCOVER card, but I was successful in having my friedns and family (all very wealthy) CANCEL their DISCOVER cards! All this over a simple fraudulent $25.23 charge. So in the end, it's DISCOVER that loses big time, with atleast 10 people cancelling their DISCOVER card service because they refused to credit my account over $25.23.

Capitol One "No Hassle CASH" credit card has a much better cash-back rewards policy. On a final note, I only had to file a charge-back one other time in my life. It was with my VISA card and it was settled in my favor with almost no questions asked. And that was for $200.

DISCOVER card sucks.

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Quote:

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HI my name is helene as you can see on my email addres I am a PayPal employee.
I went on this website by curiosity to have a look and I am amazed about how people can talk about things they do really know.
I work on buyers complaints myself, I know our system is not 100 % perfect but how is?
When someone open a complaint we make an investigation on both side and do our best to get a refund from bad seller but sometimes it is just impossible to recover it because we can just simply travel to that person house and say listen give us our money back this is the web buyer know that risk and IT IS WRITEN IN OUR USER AGREEMENT.

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omg omg look at the 'sponsored links' section on this page to purchase the book on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1412094321/smallbusin0f7-20

"Customers viewing this page may be interested in these Sponsored Links..."


>___<

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http://newsblaze.com/story/20060825191634nnnn.np/topstory.html

Quote:

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Paul Bezaire, author of the new book How I Sued PayPal and Won, has successfully sued PayPal in Los Angeles County Superior Court (Case Number SM 04A01557) and has taught other users around the world how to do the same thing. The suit arose out of PayPal's refusal to honor its money-back guarantee on defective merchandise.

Paul compares PayPal to a magician who uses smoke and mirror tricks to make a beautiful woman disappear. His book reveals seven tricks PayPal uses to make their Small Claims lawsuit disappear but to no avail. "I don't know of anybody who has used my advice and failed to get judgment against them", he said.

When Bezaire, known as the Rebel, filed his suit in Los Angeles County, PayPal attempted to thwart his efforts to obtain justice, Bezaire said. "Even though it had an entire legal staff to work on objecting to the venue," Bezaire said, "I was able to wield a small ax to chop down a giant redwood."

After a trial in October 2004, the court found for Bezaire and awarded him $159 plus costs, for a total of $202.

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John3,

PP's flawed policies, practices and procedures, and inadequate service caused me to be out $595.00 plus dollars. Their flaws are capable of victimizing their users and they have millions of user accounts. Unfortunately yes, they clearly have legitimate victims.

I simply couldn't afford to let them get away with costing me money. Waiting for the next civil suit wasn't my idea of a solution. I spent a minimum of 90 days, tried everything else first, gave them every opportunity, before filing a small claim. Near the end of the end of that 90 days, I even forewarned them that I would sue, before I filed. Obviously I agree with you, without any other alternative, as a last resort, march to court.

Prior to our scheduled court date, PP approached me to settle out of court, which I did. We agreed on a dollar amount one day, the next day I received a drawn up settlement agreement in the mail. As per our S.A., within a few days, they deposited money into my PP account. I promptly withdrew it! I got all of my money back, plus some.

PP's user agreement, states or used to state, that users were prohibited from suing them in small claims court.(Something to that effect) There was a man who sued them anyway. Supposedly, PP tried to put a stop to his suit. Because it wasn't filed in PP's city and state. The judge that ruled, ruled against PP. He said it would be unfair to expect every PP user who wanted to file a small claims case against them, to have to travel to California, to file. I've never seen the book or read it but the PP user in this case, wrote a book. Title is something like, "How I Sued PP." You can search and find this information, the correct details, on the Internet.

TJTaylor

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TJTaylor, I am really impressed. So did you get your money back? Did paypal contact you after the ruling? If small claims works, I definitely think all of us should just march to the courts!!! So many people on these forums are clearly victims of unjust and unfair treatment, and if they know there is a legitimate way to smack paypal in the face, they all have the right to know.

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I was reading through some of the paypalsuck faq's now this part -

UPDATE: [3/8/2004] The news is all around the net. PayPal agrees to pay a $150,000 in penalties for not following it's own ToS. This was just for the state of New York. Quoting from a Reuters News article:

"PayPal is not a credit-card company and is not required by law to provide "chargebacks" to consumers should a transaction go wrong, a Spitzer [New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer] aide said, but the company's customer service agreement had led consumers to believe they enjoyed such protection. ... PayPal agreed to change its user agreement to more clearly describe consumer rights, and will pay New York $150,000 in penalties and investigation costs, Spitzer's office said."

And again in an AP story:

"The nation's largest online payment service, PayPal, is paying New York $150,000 in penalties after misrepresenting to consumers its policy on repayment when merchandise doesn't arrive, the state attorney general said Monday. ... PayPal, which has 40 million customers worldwide, had specifically stated that it provided the same rights and protections of a traditional credit card transaction, said Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. But consumers were often denied those rights, he said."


Now, I'm from NYC... If the above still holds true per Elliot Spitzer's decision, then any chargebacks I've received as a seller should be allowed by paypal and they should've been done a chargeback against me, am I reading this right???

PP Victim...

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