| Thread: My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
lawsuits
Moderator
From: N/A
Messages: 558
|
 |
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt,
Could you please email me a copy of your attorney's letter. I want to present it to the court in the future to prove that this is a regular practice by Paypal in harming people.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
DjMikeWatt
New User
From: New York
Messages: 15
|
 |
My recent week with PayPal - A SMALL VICTORY! |
|
|
|
lawsuits,
A SMALL VICTORY!
My attorney sent a letter last week to PayPal's General Counsel requesting the release of the funds in my account. The tone of the letter wasn't "demanding", it was just very straight-forward. He basically just pointed out my stellar feedback rating and some other common sense reasons as to why my account should not be frozen. He said that we had no issue with them deciding to close my account, but that the money should be released and that he was confident that once they reviewed the account they would agree that there was no threat.
I got an email today from PayPal stating that my funds were now available for withdrawal.
I'm fairly certain now that in cases like mine - where it's pretty obvious that there was no actual shady activity going on - having an attorney send a letter is the best course of action. Not just because it worked for me, but because a guy on the phone at PayPal sort of insinuated to me that if I did that I should get what I wanted. I mentioned to him that I was going to have to get my attorney involved and that we all knew that I would get my money once that happened. His response to me was (paraphrasing), "I can't release the funds, but I encourage you to go ahead and follow-through with any courses of action that may be available to you"... anyway, so that's what I did and I got my money.
I still think they're a bunch of Nazis, but at least I can get my Plasma TV before baseball season starts now!
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
lawsuits
Moderator
From: N/A
Messages: 558
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
Quote:
lawsuits, This is interesting. But what kind of credit are we talking about here ? Are you saying you have a 650+ with no other issues and they still closed your account? If so you have a reason to gripe. If your credit is poor and you have bankruptcy's/foreclosures then you will be the one looking like well you know. Also this is standard verbiage for any merchant account. Check their UA's. Google checkout for example has two articles you might want to look at 3.3 (a) and 5.4. If you are saying "I have great credit and PayPal shut me down" I can help you
It's my opinion that every company that offers credit to people have their own internal standards and allowable credit ratings; but these companies tell people whether they are approved or not before they take their money. For example, there are banks that will allow people with low credit ratings (bad credit) to apply for a credit card by paying a fee. Even the banks that require a higher credit rating (good credit) before they approve a credit card application don't take a person's money until the application is approved.
However, if Paypal does have an internet approval credit rating before someone can use their services and they fail to notify people of that rating, they are defrauding thousands. I'll explain. People with bad credit are registering on Paypal's website and depositing money into their Paypal account. Paypal knows that it would not approve these people for a Paypal account; but it fails to tell them the credit rating for the purpose of cheating them out of their money by using the excuse of low credit rating. Banks don't do that. Banks approve or deny your application first before taking your money. Paypal defrauds people by taking their money while knowing that they will freeze their accounts and Paypal intentionally fails to tell them the credit rating needed so it can mislead thousands to deposit funds into its account. Now, this is if Paypal is attempting to use the credit rating as a reason for freezing funds. I don't think they will ever prevail if someone sued them.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
DjMikeWatt
New User
From: New York
Messages: 15
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
M_S,
It doesn't really matter what your credit score is, the fact still remains that to be enforceable, the clause needs to specify what Paypal's standards of "high risk" are. Why? Because I would have closed my account as soon as it reached that threshold, had Paypal disclosed what that threshold was.
What other merchant account do or don't do is not even remotely relevant. The entire purpose of Paypal was to allow normal "people" to accept credit cards, primarily on eBay, WITHOUT needing a merchant account. And, let me ask you this...
Given the recent condition of the housing market in the United States, which do you feel is a more accurate depicter of possible risk: a pending foreclosure on your credit report, or a 99.7% feedback rating, including only 1 negative, over the past 6 years?
I can understand and respect Paypal's right to terminate their business dealings with anyone at anytime for any reason. What I can't understand and respect, however, is Paypal holding my entire $2,000 balance for 6 months based on NOTHING other than my credit report has gone down. I haven't gotten one customer complaint, I haven't gotten any negative feedback in over 4 years (and even that was only 1 time from a scammer), and I comply with all Paypal's ridiculous rules. So, if you want to close my account, fine, but you have absolutely no reason to STEAL my money for 6 months. It makes no sense at all.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
M_S
Registered User
From: N/A
Messages: 17
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
lawsuits, This is interesting. But what kind of credit are we talking about here ? Are you saying you have a 650+ with no other issues and they still closed your account? If so you have a reason to gripe. If your credit is poor and you have bankruptcy's/foreclosures then you will be the one looking like well you know. Also this is standard verbiage for any merchant account. Check their UA's. Google checkout for example has two articles you might want to look at 3.3 (a) and 5.4. If you are saying "I have great credit and PayPal shut me down" I can help you
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
lawsuits
Moderator
From: N/A
Messages: 558
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt,
I agree with you. Their attorneys may think this will help them; but it's my opinion that it won't. Especially given the history of Paypal. Paypal's history can establish a behavioral pattern that can be used to interpret their reason for implementing that clause. For example, deceiving people.
By the way, I found a great service on-line. They will file a small claims court action anywhere in America against Paypal. Things are starting to look up.
Small Claims Court Filing On-Line
The following service will file a small claims court action against Paypal for you online.
www.legalcpu.com/smallclaims/small_claim_intro.php?gclid=CO2jhMC215ACFQGzGgodBhvtWQ
HERE IS THE GREAT NEWS!
You can just have them send Paypal a "demand letter" before you commence litigation.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
DjMikeWatt
New User
From: New York
Messages: 15
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
lawsuits,
This is my entire point. If paragraph 10L said, for instance, that the user must "maintain a credit rating of 650 or higher" then I could see how it is enforceable. And even then they would have to specify which reporting agency they use, because I could have a 670 with Equifax and a 645 with TransUnion. I suppose they could say that it needs to be above XXX at all reporting agencies.... but they didn't.
This is so clearly a non-enforceable clause. It's like me going into a contract with you and saying, "I'm going to borrow $5,000 from you and I'll pay you back in a year. But if you act like a jerk to me at anytime during that year then i don't have to pay you back". Well, shit, "acting like a jerk" is completely subjective and there is no reasonable standard scale for measuring it. The same goes for "indicating a high level of risk" in the credit report.
Let's be honest here... Paypal lawyers aren't stupid. It doesn't specify a definitive credit score because the way it's written now they can freeze different people's accounts no matter where their score is. If the agreement specified a number then they'd have to abide by that. The more I look at the facts here the more obvious and evident it becomes that this user agreement was constructed in a way that was planned from the beginning to be malleable in application and deceptive.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
lawsuits
Moderator
From: N/A
Messages: 558
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt,
It is my opinion that there is no doubt that there can be a strong case made against Paypal for wrongful conduct. For example, violation of consumer protection acts across America.
You brought up a good question in relation to credit level, "wouldn’t they need to specify what “indicates a high level of risk”?
I'm sure there is a standard to which the credit industry works by in identifying a risk or now; but here is where the problem is and where Paypal could also be liable. As you pointed out, they fail to inform the average consumer what is considered a credit risk. By doing so, Paypal misleads people into thinking that all is ok when they allow them to use their website and deposit money into a Paypal controlled account. I can see a deception here by Paypal since they are aware of the level that is considered risky; but fail to tell consumers so Paypal can then freeze their account and earn interest from it.
Like I said, Paypal is truly a criminal corporation and before this lawsuit in New York is finished, millions of consumers will be awaken to their fraudulent activities due to the fact that I have been posting the lawsuit through the Internet on a daily basis and I will also be advertising it in print Ads. All of New York will know that Paypal is a crooked corporation. If God willing we get them in front of a jury, they are finished.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
DjMikeWatt
New User
From: New York
Messages: 15
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
An email I just sent my attorney tonight...
David:
I’m wondering about the legality of the verbiage used in the section describing both the “restricted activity” and the “actions PayPal may take”.
The “Restricted Activity” is described as “[having] a credit score from a credit reporting agency that indicates a high level of risk associated with your use of the Services”
My question here is to be legally binding wouldn’t they need to specify what “indicates a high level of risk”? I mean, is a score of 700 acceptable? What about 635? 595? Where is that line? And if there is no definitive line, then the decision is being made subjectively by a person, not actually based upon specifics of the credit report. It just seems like to be legally enforceable this contract would need to specify the conditions more clearly than this. If my funds are being held by authority of this section of the contract titled “restricted activities” and I didn’t know that my credit score “indicated a high level of risk” (which I COULDN’T know since they don’t specify what they consider “high risk”), then I didn’t knowingly or willingly breach this agreement.
The “Actions We May Take” sections states that PayPal has the right to “hold your funds for up to 180 Days if reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability”.
My question regarding this section is similar to above. Who decides when it is “reasonably needed”? And do they not have to show me or explain to me WHY they feel that it is reasonably needed? The simple fact that my credit rating is not stellar doesn’t seem to be reason enough alone to hold the funds, as evidenced by PayPal’s own use of other “actions” in different situations (10.2). PayPal has constructed this agreement in a manner that absolves them of any accountability. Under this agreement they can, for absolutely ANY reason at all, freeze pretty much anyone’s account by simply saying that “they” feel that it’s reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability.
David, when you have a moment I’d like to discuss the above with you. The more I sit and think about what’s going on the more I feel like I want to DO something. If I were to decide that the principle was more important than the money, can I bring any kind of suit against them challenging their contract’s legality and enforceability? If so, are there grounds to file for punitive damages since it appears that PayPal has knowingly and willingly constructed this agreement to exploit its customers? I’m just curious.
I trust that you know much more about this than I do, that’s why I hired you… so if you disagree then fine… but it seems to me that based simply upon the argument I made above any judge or jury in the country would find against PayPal… so I’m confident that attorney’s fees and court costs will be recovered in judgment (which is why I’m so willing to move forward)… but, like I said, are there any grounds for more in punitive damages?
Let’s talk when you get a chance – preferably before you draft the letter, in case we decide to go a different direction.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
lawsuits
Moderator
From: N/A
Messages: 558
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt,
5. We may hold your funds for up to 180 Days if reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability; and
It is my opinion that Paypal is full of BS and they know it. They are just trying to pull the wool over consumers eyes. The keyword above is "reasonable". That word is used in the law. Paypal will have to prove that it was "reasonable" to hold ALL your money. In fact, they previously agreed not to hold more money than what was reasonably necessary to secure themselves, which is the amount that someone may request in a charge back. But they also need to prove that they had "GOOD CAUSE" to hold your money in the first place.
So Paypal will have to prove that holding your funds was "reasonable" and done with "good cause". Everyone knows what Paypal is doing. It's very clear, and a jury at trial will also know what they have been doing. They are not fooling anyone. Their time is coming...
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
DjMikeWatt
New User
From: New York
Messages: 15
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
Well, in the PayPal user agreement, listed under "restricted activities", among things like intentionally defrauding people and using your account in ways that break laws, etc., there is a little gem (10l.) that says YOU WILL NOT
"Have a credit score from a credit reporting agency that indicates a high level of risk associated with your use of the Services;"
How that qualifies as an "activity" I don't know. But now, if we look down to the next section that states what they can do when you engage in a "restricted activity", they have things like:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the Services (such as limiting access to any of your Funding Sources, and your ability to send money, make withdrawals, or remove financial Information);
2. We may contact buyers who have purchased goods or services from you, contact your bank or credit card issuer, and warn other Users, law enforcement, or impacted third parties of your actions;
3. We may update inaccurate Information you provided us;
4. We may refuse to provide our Services to you in the future;
5. We may hold your funds for up to 180 Days if reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability; and
6. We may take legal action against you.
------------------------------------------------------------------
So, clearly, #5 is the biggest thing on there. I mean, I don't care if you refuse to offer me your services in the future... just give me my money! But what it actually says is "...if REASONABLY needed to protect against the risk of liability". What about my case makes this seem reasonable? Check out my feedback on eBay (user id: djsideshowdan). Everyone got their items quickly and rave about them. There is no reason to think that there is any risk of liability here except that my credit report isn't the greatest. Hardly seems "reasonable".
The problem here is, as we all know, that they can do whatever they want, because it would cost upwards of $8,000 to take them to court, and most people either can't or won't do that over something like $2,000. Especially since in the User Agreement we all agree to litigate in California. It's absolute bullshit and what we need to do is alert agencies like the BBB, then also write letters to Congressmen & women. They need to see that PayPal is, despite what they say, a bank - and as such should be regulated by the government in the same manner that U.S. banks are.
That's what I'm going to do. Contact my Congressmen and Senators and try to get this out into the public. Maybe call that guy on the news that confronts companies the screw people...
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
cooldeals2go
Registered User
From: minnesota
Messages: 33
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
lawsuits,
actually there is a law where the company has to let the consumer know of changes in the TOS, and then send some sort of info for an update,
but also look back to when you signed up, it wasnt there was it?
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
lawsuits
Moderator
From: N/A
Messages: 558
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt,
This looks like a clear breach of contract on Paypal's part. I did not see any terms or conditions that were based on your "credit rating". They just made that up. You can't make up new terms and conditions when you want to, and this is what Paypal has been doing.
The fact that Paypal is making up new terms and conditions after a consumer enters into contract with it and since Paypal knows that it has been doing this is most likely will keep doing this, a claim of "fraud" can be asserted against them as they entered into a contract with a consumer with full knowledge that they would not adhere to it.
Don't forget to sue Paypal for "punitive damages". Let your attorney ask for as much as possible. Let the jury decide what they will give you. There is no max. amount for punitive damages only "tests" to determine if it is excessive.
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
jennypotzkie5
Message Maniac
From: N/A
Messages: 118
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt, Also, since you work for a radio station, maybe you can interview David ( Mehmet ) at your radio station or you maybe know another dj who can take David'd story. Maybe you guys can call out people to be at the trial on the 23rd of January...
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
jennypotzkie5
Message Maniac
From: N/A
Messages: 118
|
|
My recent week with PayPal (and what I'm doing about it) |
|
|
|
DjMikeWatt, Goodluck. And just like i told David, i admire and respect courageous and principled people like you who are not afraid to take a stand against the "big" PayPal. Let us hit those suckers hard so they'd wake up and do business better. Also, if you dont mind, if i can ask a favor from you to copy and paste this thread to my lawyer at chris@chrisbrownlawfirm.com. He told me when i met with him that he wanted to see people writing him an email about their frozen accounts. same thing happened to me, and it will be great if he can gather many emails himself about this. I appreciate it
CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE
|
|
1 - 15 16 - 16
Next
|
